Spudfactor is the number it takes to get from Jerry to another musician, using ties defined as making music together, in person.
Anyone who played with him, live or live in studio, even picking in someone's living room, has SF1.
Then everyone they ever played with --same definition-- now has SF 2 (at most). And so forth.
The universe of SF1, when we draw all of the ties between all of the other players, defines the Side Trips Social Network.
Anyway, we were playing around with links out from Jerry to Coltrane, and my amazing commenters have determined that Jerry 0 > Ornette 1 > Coltrane 2.
So much fun. Original question was about John Chambers. We have moved on.
It's my understanding that Hartbeats era Matrix drummer John Chambers played with John Coltrane. I could check, but I wanted to pin this here before I head out to the ol' salt mines.
It's my understanding that Hartbeats era Matrix drummer John Chambers played with John Coltrane. I could check, but I wanted to pin this here before I head out to the ol' salt mines.
If it's the same Joe Chambers he's a jazz drummer who played with everybody and is on a lot of Blue Note recordings, including a whole bunch with Bobby Hutcherson. I don't think there's any recordings of Chambers with Coltrane but maybe he filled in for Elvin Jones for a gig or three.
ReplyDeleteHe's still alive and active at age 81, just released an album last year.
However, one of the Chambers Brothers is named Joe so it could have been him, although I don't know if he's a drummer.
Yeah, I am looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Chambers and I don't see any direct Coltrane connections.
DeleteJerry > Ornette > Don Cherry/Charlie Haden/Ed Blackwell > Coltrane gets you there fairly quick.
ReplyDeleteJerry > Ornette > Coltrane works -- Coltrane and Ornette knew each other and, I believe, played informally together (no recordings, of course).
DeleteTrue, that works as well as the Wayne Shorter pathway, I suppose (with the proviso that a meeting w no audio documentation counts).
DeleteSo right now we have JC at spudfactor 2 via Ornette as the most unambiguous and shortest parth?
DeleteSo JC has Spudfactor 3 by that pathway.
ReplyDeleteJerry - Carlos Santana - Alice Coltrane - John is another 3
ReplyDeleteJerry > Charles Lloyd > Billy Higgins > Trane is another 3.
ReplyDeleteJerry > David Murray > Elvin Jones/McCoy Tyner > Trane is yet another.
ReplyDeleteThe only 2 I can think of depends on the rules: it's known that the great Wayne Shorter & Trane practiced together in the early 60s (and allegedly played together on stage as well). Wayne and Jerry played together w Carlos Santana (1.23.88, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVmRk6U2Khs). That's a 2.
ReplyDeleteJerry > Miles (Fillmore West 4/70) > Coltrane get you there. So does Jerry > Joe Henderson (both JG & JH were on the Bruce Hornsby performance released on the Night on the Town video) > Coltrane (who jammed with Henderson, as documented on a circulating 1958 tape).
ReplyDelete(this is Nick, btw; blogger's not letting me sign in)
Jerry and Joe Henderson didn't play on the same tracks on that Hornsby program, did they? If so, damn, I must check that out; I had no idea! Given how long as Joe was a prominent player living and working here in the bay area scene (teaching, incidentally, future Ratdog mainstay Kenny Brooks among many others), it's mildly surprising there weren't more direct run-ins w Garcia and co.
DeleteSeeing as Miles never played with Jerry at the Fillmore, I gather I am likely misunderstanding the Spudfactor rules in assuming the folks involved have to have played music together.
no, Joe and Jerry aren't playing on the same tunes, unfortunately. fwiw, there's a group photo in the video of JG & JH standing next to each other. Maybe I'm not understanding the spudfactor criteria either.
DeleteWell, the existence of the picture alone is a pretty cool thing which I was totally unaware of, so thanks for mentioning it! Henderson was a master of the highest order.
DeleteGD-Miles in 1970 was a shared billing.
ReplyDeleteHornsby thing, if they didn't play "live in studio" together, is a shared credit.
Playing together, live or live in studio, even picking in someone's living room, is what defines the SF. If someone did that w JG, they have SF 1. Then everyone they ever played with --same definition-- now has SF 2 (at most).
I think, with that clarification, we land at SF2 via either the Ornette or Wayne Shorter route.
Delete