March 23, 1975 - Jerry Garcia Interview

I don't know who the interviewer is, nor the radio station from which this particular recorded. It is the first track of shnid-126296. This is the interview Jerry gave before the SNACK Benefit at Kezar Stadium. Sounds like reading the newspapers around the time of the show will prove interesting, mismanagement of budgets by bureaucrats probably a recurring theme. I can't talk about that now.

Instead, just a few quick thoughts, with link to audio and my reasonably full transcription below the fold.

1. Why Side Trips?

One of the theses I'll address in the book is that Garcia's side projects were about more and different live gigging, relative to what he could get with the GD. It ain't earth-shattering to posit the primitives of quantity and quality of course. But the evolution over time is very interesting, how he interpreted and put into practice, these desiderata, is really rich. Indeed, it's what Fate Music will be about, how Garcia navigated his life beyond the Grateful Dead. It's a nontrivial problem, and his solutions tell us a lot about him and, certainly for me, sheds light on the human condition, on how each and all of us must navigate our own lives "beyond the Grateful Dead".

On the quantity side, history's arc bends pretty straightforwardly: until mid-1975, "more" meant "all the time". As time went on, it would this would diminish and become highly routinized, mostly through the Jerry Garcia Band. He'd play a weekend or two at a regular local haunt (the Keystone Family of venues until 1987, the Warfield after that, a weekend or two every few months, with the occasional off-weekend show thrown in. West coast trips to SoCal and up to the Pacific Northwest. Maybe an East Coast tour, eventually only in the fall.

A simple chart of the number of GOTS gigs over the years will nicely illustrate the point, but I don't want to go generate one right now. Soon enough.

The quality calculus, i.e., the evolving meaning and practice of "different" on The Side, moves, over the years, from challenge to comfort. The cut-point is 12/31/75-1/1/76. Prior to that point, the side projects involved more challenge than comfort. After that point, the curves cross and comfort starts trumping challenge.

I say all of this because there's a nice Q&A here on where Garcia's head was it, with respect to all of this, on March 23, 1975.

0018 interviewer You're an incredible guy, because with all the history of the GD and the all the musical avenues that the Dead has explored, you also work with Merl Saunders and the bluegrass thing OAITW… do you find that that is what you need to keep stretching musically?

0044 Well it’s just that I have a lot of different interests, and any one thing might not take up … If I have space … for example, when the Grateful Dead were touring, there would be times when we would be on the road for two weeks, three weeks, and then off the road for two or three weeks. During that two or three week interim period, I’d usually want to play some, y’know, play music somehow. And, obviously the Grateful Dead can’t go out and play in clubs, without causing some sort of amazing commotion … and so I started taking up my time about four or five years ago jamming, just jamming, on Monday nights at the Matrix, and started playing with Howard Wales and them, and later Merl, and John Kahn played bass and stuff like that. But it started to be a more or less regular thing, and I just got into feeling that, ‘yeah, when I’m not workin’, if I’m not on the road or touring or something like that, there’s still a lot of room for me to play and cha … and reach, y’know, out to a, … in a learning sort of situation and all that.

2. Fate Music

There's a great little Fate Music line here, too, where he talks about OAITW (@01:46)

Bluegrass music is something that’s a little different. It’s something I’ve always loved. And mainly with bluegrass music, you sort of have to wait for an opportunity to present itself, where there are musicians around that understand the music and play it really well .. and Old And In The Way was a result of that sort of coincidence, where suddenly there was [sic] three or four of us around who knew the music and who enjoyed playin’ it. So we started loosely, just getting together and playing for fun, and then got to be more serious about it as time went on. But really those things sort of happen accidentally in a way.

I like this for the Fate Music theme of these things coming together by happenstance. But this little synopsis also speaks to the process of institutionalization. It starts off a lark and ends up a job. That's one feature of the arc of Garcia on The Side that's essential to keep in mind.

3. GD and Side Trips

One of the key issues that I spend a lot of time thinking about (since my subtitle is Jerry Garcia's Musical Life Outside the Grateful Dead) is how the side stuff and the GD interact. Here, Garcia is asked whether being so busy with side stuff undermines the Dead. His answer (@02:22): "No, I don’t think so. I think it adds to it, just in terms of that each thing stays fresh if you’re not doin’ it all the time. You come back to it with new ideas and new influences and stuff like that.

4. Record Companies

The interviewer asks Garcia to evaluate whether the record companies were a good idea, in retrospect. This is really informative: in his mind, they were dead by 3/23/75. Here's Jerry's reply (@0427):

Well, yeah. I think so. Certainly in our heads I think it was a good idea. It hasn't been the world's most outrageously successful endeavor, but that's not the focus, either. Again, that hasn't been the focus. Now that we're in the midst of a bone-crushing economic slump, and all the rest of that stuff, our, we're scuffling just like everybody else is, basically.

5. Film Company

Round Reels, the film company, remains almost totally opaque to me. Garcia mentions it here as if it's a relatively recent innovation. He mentions The Movie and also the company's involvement with what would become, in 1983 (!) Hells Angels Forever [imdb].

6. The First Pirates' Ball, JGMS, 9/5/73, S.S. Bay Belle, NYC Harbor

In that connection, he paints a great picture of the first Pirates' Ball show (for the second, see my post on 9/15/76), September 5, 1973 (@0540). There was one

time that Merl and I and Bill Kreutzmann and John Kahn played for the Hells Angels, for one of their parties, where they rented sort of a ferry boat … the kind that go around Manhattan, y'know? They rented a ferry boat and they had this blowout for all these Hells Angels. They came from all over the United States, plus all kinds of New York weirdos and stuff like that. We played on this boat, on the top deck of the boat, underneath the Brooklyn Bridge, and went around the island a few times. The Jolly Roger was flying, y'know? And we played out by the Statue of Liberty with all these crazy Hells Angels and all this stuff. And they were filming it from all over, from perspective points like the tops of buildings, in New York, looking down those long canyons, and you could see this ferry boat go by with the Jolly Roger and that kind of stuff. There's a lot of really … there's a lot of arresting … striking visual stuff in the movie.

7. Hiatus

"That's part of the reason we stopped performing, was an effort to pursue completely new ideas and shake loose the past, in terms of musical … stuff" (@0742, discussing the "Blues For Allah" stuff they're going to play in just a few minutes)

Anyway, loved this interview. Not sure if it has been transcribed before, but, anyway, here it is.

JGB 9/15/76 S.S. Duchess, New York City Harbor, New York, NY

The relationship between the Grateful Dead and the Hells Angels has been pretty well discussed, though I am sure there's tons more to say. That's for others to do.

Here I'll just note that Garcia also worked with the Angels outside the GD framework. I have made a few posts with Hells Angels content. I don't have time to work it all out, but I am not going to let that stop me saying something, anyway.

In 2009 I briefly discussed the Hells Angels benefit at the Anderson Theatre in NYC on 11/23/70, NRPS-GD, mostly to update the setlists.  In 2011 I mentioned 3/25/72 at the Academy of Music in NYC, including this great picture of Bo Diddley and the Dead (billed as Jerry Garcia and Friends), at least parts of which were released as Dick's Pick's 30 (2003).

Jerry Garcia and Friends, 3/25/72, Academy of Music, NYC; photo by Chuck Pulin, published in Carr, Patrick. 1972b. One Full Week Running With: Grateful Dead. Grapevine (Toronto) no. 14, May 17, 1972, p. 15.

At some point I'll write up 9/5/73, on the S.S. Bay Belle, Jerry and Merl's first east coast performance.

Right now, I just want to pick my jaw up off the floor at the video that has just hit the streets: The Jerry Garcia Band aboard the S.S. Duchess, New York City Harbor, 9/15/76 [Jerrybase] in high quality color video:

Amazing. Thanks to all involved in getting this to where a schmoe like me can see it, from pretty much anywhere pretty much at any time. Like so much other great stuff, this was seeded by "Voodoonola". A tip o' the cap to you, sir or madam.

(Also of note: video of JGB playing "Not Fade Away" on the Jersey Shore, 7/9/77, also shared to Youtube. I have noted an audio listen to that, as well as the night before at the Calderone Concert Hall. I can't wait to watch it.)

This show offers awesome triangulation possibilities.

There are posters (IM's amazing poster site had one, but is no longer updated past 1976).

There are live action stills and other eye candy:

Pirates' Ball 9/15/76 photo spread, photogs Craig Silverman, Patricia, Ron Gaiella, Yipster Times, October 1976, p. 24.

Naturally enough, this being the Garciaverse, there's also tape. The legendary Ohr Weinberg had a cassette copy of unknown provenance, which Anne Cohen digitized and shared (shnid-86326).

Finally, there's also a great review:

! review: Moore, Jerry. 1976c. 6 Hours Before the Mast. Relix 3, 6 (October): 14-16. [pdf].

Moore tells us all kinds of neat stuff. This was a Hells Angels party, but adventurous public could join in at $15 a head. That would explain the posters. 2,000, including a couple hundred Angels, took part. By the way, this is the same vessel they cruised in 1973, just rechristened, and it reflects a second triple-crossing of the Garciaverse, Bo Diddley and the Angels (after the aforementioned 3/25/72, and penultimate to the Sandy Alexander Benefit crossing of 6/25/82).

More Jerry color (Sard Thee Well!):

In all that freaky crowd, the Angels were the freakiest. The first thing that hit you was that most of them were pretty big, inspiring awe by size alone. Their garb ran mostly to oily denim and leather, the kind of clothing that makes your nose wish it were in some other state. Naturally, they all wore their colors. Tattoos seem to be almost as popular among the Angels as motorcycles. Scars, missing limbs, and prosthetic devices (hooks and such) were very much in evidence, as were weapons ranging from knives to brass knuckles and chains. One Angel in particular, I wish I had a picture of. He was well over 6 feet tall, and must have weighed over 300 pounds. He was wearing only a·vest over his oily denims, and, wherever he went, his stomach preceded him by feet. He was so festooned with chains that he clanked with every step he took. He was so greasy and ugly that he was beautiful, a veritable human tank.

Moore describes four decks set up with nitrous tanks (free if you could fight your way in), packed bars and food services, speakers everywhere, and TV monitors "with a phenomenal color picture of the performance" (video - check!).

Moore narrates a few things which are confirmed by the video. (Indeed, one wonders if ol' JM didn't have a copy of the video? He always did have a remarkably good memory for stuff, though.) He notes "a rather stoned Angel stumbled onto the stage during the Garcia Band set, seizing control of a microphone long enough to drawl out 'Hey folks some cookin' music. Get it on with that boogie beat there,'" which we do get on the video. He also says, cheekily, "Jerry has a funny little trick of rotating his ass in circles to cue" the amazing, upbeat gospel "Mighty High" [Allan | deaddisc | Jerrybase], and there Garcia is on video, shaking his tail.

The order was an apparently forgettable Bay Area band called Cheyenne, Elephant's Memory, then Bo Diddley backed by EM, then, from 11:55-2:05 or so (actually 2:07 am), the Garcia Band. Jerry mentions a hot "Midnight Moonlight", which is not on the video. I need to revisit that.

I'll just finish with a few quick thoughts on what I got out of watching this incredible video, bullet-style.

• John Kahn mostly can't be heard, which would be familiar from later years. This is basically intended as a criticism.
• Nice to see Ronnie Tutt banging the start of "Mighty High"
• Nice to see Donna Jean singing the beautiful stuff she was doing this period behind "Stir It Up", her groove on "After Midnight", and her power on "Mighty High".
• "Mighty High" (Crawford, Downing) was, per Allan, "originally recorded by The Mighty Clouds of Joy and later covered by Gloria Gaynor". JGB only played it in 1976, it is my favorite song of 1976, and this video is breathtaking. It cuts out only a minute or two in, and as much as I want to lament the Cut Of Death, I must celebrate the couple of minutes that we do get. It's not present on Ohr's old tape, and here we get to listen and watch. Wonderful, amazing, glorious stuff. Thank you, Jay-zuss!