This is great. For tracking purposes, I'm going to put in one comment per entry, to make Reply easier to follow.
19661016; Big Brother at Avalon: A fellow scholar queried Peter Albin about this, and he doesn't recall it. That doesn't mean it did or didn't happen, but Pete doesn't remember it.
Given that the Mojo Navigator wrote about this the very next day, that trumps aging memories! "Jerry Garcia played one song with the Holding Company, which came off extremely well, then a group called “The New Peanut Butter Sandwich” composed of Pigpen and Garcia of the Grateful Dead, David Getz of the Holding Co., David of the Messenger Service, and the rhythm guitarist from Sir Douglas, later joined by Gary and John of the Messenger Service, and a Negro blues singer. They did a very long and boring pseudo-Butterfield blues instrumental."
19690110 Fillmore West with Country Joe And The Fish date incorrect The Donovan's Reef jam was 19690112 (Sunday night) http://hooterollin.blogspot.com/2016/01/fillmore-west-january-12-1969-country.html
19690219 High Country at The Matix I keep changing my mind. My current view is that it WAS Feb 19, and High Country played an early set at the Matrix. Other groups headlined Matrix that night (Hot Tuna/Weird Herald) and Garcia went over to Fillmore West.
Are you going to include placeholders where you dont have an exact date? Marrying Maiden-Its A Beautiful Day Be What You Want To-Link Wray Stills2 and Manassas-Stephen Stills (same session, at Criteria in FL) Angel Clare-Art Garfunkel A Wing And A Prayer-Matt Kelly (87 release, probably 73 recording) Down In The Groove-Bob Dylan (88 vocals only) Watchfire-Pete Sears Transverse City-Warren Zevon Trios-Rob Wasserman (with Edie Brickell)
You see I have been inconsistent with that. Anything more inclusive than a day eludes my coding system. Sometimes I use the first of the month, and could do so for all of them. That'd be quite a project, but I should go one way or the other rather than being inconsistent, and I think erring on the side of including them is worth it to see the studio work more clearly (and still obviously in reduced form relative to what actually went down).
Placeholders with no exact date should definitely be added. With this list, it's more important to see who Garcia played with than exactly when! So I'd urge more inclusions.
19790422 Spartan Stadium This was Brent's debut. The bill was GD/Charlie Daniels Band/Greg Kihn. A reliable commentator (Blue Heron) says that Garcia came on stage briefly during Charlie Daniels set, plugged in, but couldn't find room in the sound (or perhaps there was another technical problem) and left the stage.
I was there and don't recall that, but based on where I was sitting at that point (way back) it could have happened without me noticing.
A couple omissions: 3/24/68 San Francisco street fair - Garcia sits in with Traffic 7/2/89 Foxboro - Garcia & Weir join Los Lobos in a little parking-lot session for the cameras (a rehearsal?)
A couple corrections: 7/7/69 - the post-show jam was not with the Allmans but with a bunch of players from various bands. "5/14/70" - the Scotty's Music Store jam is usually dated 12/9/71, which is uncertain but seems more likely than May '70.
I don't know if the Festival Express train jams from July '70 are worth noting; details in any case would be vague, though we have at least one recording: https://archive.org/details/gd1970-07-00.aud.miller.106571.flac16
There are a few early jams which aren't exactly Garcia "sitting in" but aren't Dead or Garcia shows either - Carousel jams like 5/21/68; or the 2/15/68 rotating-players San Quentin show; or the 12/24/68 Matrix jam with Harvey Mandel's band... These kinds of things may fall through the cracks since they're hard to categorize. (The 9/7/69 Family Dog oldies show is also a possible inclusion; though it's usually listed as a Dead show it qualifies more as a Garcia/Hart sit-in to me, at least what we have on tape.)
I have the Traffic thing as 3/18/68 - has this gig moved?
I don't know from Scotty's, not sure why 12/9/71 is preferable, one that has been gone over a million times over the years.
It raises a more general conceptual issue, though, as do a number of your following entries: are these really JG as guest of a group? One litmus test is - whose guest is he (i.e., whose gig is it)?
I think I need a gig category which is just one-offs, which would be when the answer to the above question is that it was not someone's gig, it had more ad hoc qualities to it.
I think the Festival Express stuff I have is stuff I am comfortable listing as I do.
Agree with everything you say. I have the Hartbeats stuff as a Jerry gig, so to speak, but a lot of these lines are very hard to define. It has to be something of a gut feel.
7/7/69: I have probably just interpreted it as Allmans with Jerry and others sitting in. So this is more like the 2/4/70 super jam, the post-festival jam - not a guest shot because there is no host.
7/2/89: I am comfortable calling this Los Lobos, since it looks like 4 LL guys to two Dead. Does anyone have the names of the guys playing on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM18HENqNbk. But we could easily make the argument that this is just an ad hoc musical event, with respect to which language of hosting and guesting might not be appropriate.
3/24/68 - In comments to the LLD post, I established that 3/24 was the probable date for the Traffic show, not 3/18: http://lostlivedead.blogspot.com/2010/09/march-18-1968-pier-10-san-francisco.html
12/24/68 - Not Hartbeats; it was listed as "Jam Session with Jerry Garcia, Jack Casady and others," but the tape (if it's the right date) is Harvey Mandel's band with Jerry - doubtful whether Casady, Hart, or the usual suspects are there, it definitely sounds like Garcia as a guest of Mandel's group, not a Hartbeats situation.
7/7/69: One witness recalled, "Most of the musicians retook the stage to play with the Dead. Big horn section, background singers, eight drummers, a bass quintet, and Harold Kelling, Glenn Phillips, Duane Allman and Dickie Betts, Delaney Bramlett, Chicago’s guitarist, Randy California, and Jerry Garcia trading and interlacing lead lines." http://www.thestripproject.com/a-bus-stops-in-piedmont-park-july-7-1969/ Other sources should be checked too (this could be embellished), but it's clearly a multi-band after-show jam, not a "guest" situation per se. My feeling is it should still be included, though.
12/9/71 - Since Buddy Cage is believed to be on the recording (Scotty himself said so), it makes Dec '71 more likely than 1970. More crucially, the tape also includes 'Country Roads,' a song which was not released until spring 1971! Some chat about the jam here: http://archive.org/post/329204/scottys-music-store-jam
What about all those Reconstruction shows with "guest guitarist Jerry Garcia"?? ;)
There's one more Keith & Donna Band show: 12/20/75 at Winterland with Garcia as the only guitarist for 99% of the set: http://db.etree.org/shn/12493
and Garcia sitting in with the Nelson/Rothman "California Bros." band at the Lone Star Cafe, 4/6/87: http://db.etree.org/shn/101075
Also, would that jam at Mickey's ranch on 8/21/71 count for the purposes of this list? It was Garcia, Crosby, Cipollina, Lesh, Hart, and possibly others -- maybe it's worth considering, since it was an after-show jam at a NRPS performance + the fact that the only identifiable songs are either Crosby's or random jam session fare. https://archive.org/details/gd71-08-21.hartjam.aud.17179.sbeok.shnf http://lostlivedead.blogspot.com/2012/03/august-21-1971-mickey-harts-ranch.html
and I assume that the brief 1968 axis of Garcia/Casady/Hart *wouldn't* count for the purposes of this list, since they were (very briefly) considering forming an actual band? (I think?) that would include the 5/21/68 Carousel jam, the 7/28/68 Rancho Olompali jam, the 10/28/69(68?) Jefferson Airplane House jam... or would they?
I also wondered whether the 8/21/71 jam would count, since it's most of the Dead and various guests....or is it an SF music gathering with some Dead guests? (Ihor's comment below has the details.) Like the various '68 jam tapes with Airplane members, it's not quite a Garcia sit-in. On the other hand, I think it's best to include all these dates in the list, since several of us are bringing them up!
LIA, the alternative would be to make a separate category for unled musical events. That just generates a new set of lines to parse (were the Hartbeats really led?), but it would probably leave us with fewer ambiguities.
4/6/87 - yes, added. Not sure how that one got nuked from my spreadsheet, because I chased that tape for years.
8/21/71 I'd like in the "other" category, along with the Carousel jams. Olompali to me is the germ of the Garcia-Casady-Hart power trio (as you mention), so it's a Jerry thing.
10/28/69 I think of as JG-Guest, literally in their house, so it should be on my list here.
Nightline (ABC News) The July 4, 1989 program included Jerry Garcia, Bob Weir, and Los Lobos playing an acoustic "This Land Is Your Land". At the beginning of the show, about 10 seconds of Garcia and a member of Los Lobos playing "Sitting On Top Of The World" were broadcast. Later, a few seconds of "Let The Good Times Roll" were shown. A portion of "Ripple" from the "American Beauty" album was played over images from around the nation. These segments were taped backstage at Sullivan Stadium, Foxboro, MA, on July 2, 1989.
08-21-71 - Mickey's Barn Studio, Novato, CA - This was a local radio broadcast designated and promoted as "A Day In The Country" that took place at Mickey Hart's ranch barn. Musicians from several bands played most of the day together in varying configurations. These included members of the Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Quicksilver Messenger Service, David Crosby, Barry Melton, the New Riders of the Purple Sage, many others, and Ned.
According to Ned: "While I had already met several of those in attendance, jammed with some, and already worked on "Seastones" with some (and played baseball with some), I got to see and meet many others from the Bay Area, musicians and families. Very high day for everyone. One of the very memorable days."
There are two known recordings: Ned's personal copy (available on Ned's music webpage spiritcats.com/music and then scroll down to the DOWNLOADS section ), and an audience recording ( https://archive.org/details/gd71-08-21.hartjam.aud.17179.sbeok.shnf ).
Tape box for "A Day In The Country"
The tape box of Ned's recording lists: "Stokes, Garcia, Lagin, Hart, Lesh, Crosby, Cippolina, Freiberg" and recording information. It contains "The Other One Jam" > "The Wall Song", "Jam", "Blooz", and "R&R Jam".
The audience recording contains "Jam #1", "Wall Song" > "Jam" > "Wall Song", "Jam #2", "Noodle Part 1", "Noodle Part 2", "Jam #3", "Jam #4", "Tuning Jam #1", "Ghost Riders In The Sky Jam", "Winin' Boy Blues", "Tuning Jam #2", and "Tore Down".
According to Ned: "Phil had all the tapes, and we listened to all the recordings in his living room. Phil made reel-to-reel and cassette copies for himself and for me. My tape box labeling was written by Phil. Phil listed on the tape box only a few of the musicians before tiring and "quitting" the labeling process."
"I played piano or organ throughout the day." From memory, Ned lists the following musicians: "Jerry Garcia, Phil Lesh, Bob Weir, Mickey Hart, David Crosby, David Freiberg, Barry Melton, John Cippolina, Robbie Stokes, Jorma Kaukonen, Jack Casady, Paul Kantner, maybe Merl Saunders. Three or four or more guitarists playing together, two basses. Most out of tune with piano and organ at times and worst by the end. David Freiberg sometimes played organ, as well as bass. Some thought Nicky Hopkins was there but I have no memory of him, and believe at the time he was with the Rolling Stones. This day exemplifies the spirit of the music and comradeship of the times that I had experienced first in the summer of 1970, then in the summers of 1971,1972, and 1973. And the spirit of the times when "Seastones" was recorded."
Aside from multiple undated Seastones recording sessions, one definite addition there is Ned's 9/19/75 Palace of Fine Arts show: "Ned performs "Seastones" and other compositions with Phil, Jerry, and David Crosby. The recording indicates that Jerry was present and accounted for in at least in the first part of this concert. He had to leave this concert early for a Jerry Garcia Band concert in Sacramento."
With 11/28/73, Garcia was billed and the other guys just showed up. These Phil & Ned '75 shows are the reverse; Garcia could come or not come, so is closer to being a guest than a member - particularly if he leaves halfway through the show!
Agreed. The 11/28/73 was billed Jerry Garcia & Mickey Hart, though we now know for sure that Ned and Phil were performing as well. The 6/6/75 and 9/19/75 Seastones shows were Ned's gig: 6/6 is billed "Ned Lagin, Phil Lesh & Friends," so I supposed you could argue that JG is one of the 'friends' and ergo 'in the band', but I disagree: I always got the sense that anyone other than Ned or Phil who played during those sets (i.e. Jerry) was "joining in" as opposed to playing an integral part. During those 1974 Phil & Ned sets, he sometimes opted to join in, but usually did not. I say call any playing that Garcia did on Ned Lagin's turf a guest appearance, just like any time that Ned Lagin sat in during the Dead's own jams was a guest appearance.
I don't think "guest" in this context necessarily means just "dropping in": it ranges from the genuinely spontaneous (eg the Los Lobos sit-in in late 86, or - for the matter), to the casual but still pre-arranged (eg NRPS 3/18/73, billed "NRPS & special friends"), to the planned, announced/billed, and possibly even rehearsed (eg the Olatunji show in 87). Garcia's level of involvement was somewhat different in all of those situations, but I think it's accurate in all of them to assert that he was a special guest. Garcia clearly played and worked *a lot* with Ned Lagin, but I don't ever get the sense that he was central to the Seastones composition/concept in the sense that he was a member of an ensemble.
derp. scratch "for the matter" in that bit about Los Lobos. I do still think that "guest" needs some differentiation w/r/t its utility as a label for this purpose
I think there are some category issues here, even if that in itself creates the proverbial grey areas.
For Garcia to be a "guest," there has to be a pre-existing entity, even if the make up of that "entity" is casual. So> A band that does not include Garcia, who joins in, or A recording session where Garcia is not the leader
From that point of view, a private or public jam session (whether at Mickey's or the Matrix) wouldn't count. Garcia isn't a guest, not anymore than anyone else.
Now, you can change that, and say jams are included, but then we have to include every time that Garcia attended a jam. Suddenly Carousel, Matrix and other dates come into play.
Thanks to all who have commented, and I do invite anyone to join in.
One other meta note: I will use deaddisc to create placeholder dates for all of the recording sessions. He even already basically classifies releases as either Jerry's (thus hosting other players) or someone else's (thus being someone's guest).
On the category issue: It depends how strictly you want to stick to Garcia as a "guest." If the list just includes events where he's sitting in with another band, then jam sessions with various individual players involved would be excluded.
I think the list would be most useful if it had a broad range, covering all the known times Garcia played with other musicians outside his own bands/shows. While it's certainly feasible to segregate unhosted jam sessions into their own category, my feeling is that people will be looking at this list to find precisely such sessions, not merely for Garcia's "guest" spots. If you want to be strict about the "guest" category, things like the 2/4/70 Family Dog jam, the Scotty's Music jam, and the David & the Dorks shows would be omitted.
Garcia played in many gray areas not really covered by the "guest" concept. My preference is that the list would ideally include the gray areas, that's part of what it's for: if it's limited by a strict category, its use for people looking up various Garcia-on-the-side appearances is also limited. But it's your call, of course!
Well, since you are including jams, you need to add this:
19690815 Woodstock "Free Stage", Bethel, NY
In the woods, far away from the main stage at Woodstock, there was a little free stage where various locals got up and jammed. Rosie McGee's book includes a picture of Jerry playing on that stage. August 15 is an assumption, it may be the day of Aug 16, I'm not really sure.
No one has really noticed the picture, but its there. I need to write up eleventy-two thousand words on the topic, one of these days, but it should be included. It does kind of suggest that a lot fewer people read every page of Rosie McGee's book, but that's true of scholarship in general.
I read every page, it's retaining it long enough to get it off-loaded to where it needs to go. The fact that the date is uncertain may be why I don't presently list it - I can't pin it to a specific day (at least). I will investigate.
I'm sympathetic. It doesn't appear on any of my lists either, just another one of those things that we know about but can't categorize. That's why this list is a good thing.
Nice expansion of the list! It looks more filled-out now, pending more corrections & indefinite placeholder dates.
I don't remember any Woodstock photos in Rosie McGee's book! There's a photo of the free stage thought to be of Jerry, but turned out to be someone else: http://jerrygarciasbrokendownpalaces.blogspot.com/2012/09/free-stage-hog-farm-camp-max-yasgurs.html It's left open whether Jerry actually ever did play on the free stage.
But for sure he informally played an acoustic with Rosalie Sorrels & David Bromberg as she sang 'If I Could Be The Rain' somewhere in the fields of Woodstock; thought to be on August 15. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld-g30MGJu4
Adding to this list - on May 27 (or 28), 1971, Philip Elwood saw the Rowan Brothers playing with Ian & Sylvia at the Lion's Share, and mentioned that "the set I heard by the Rowans was further enhanced by various of the Grateful Dead sitting in." (Elwood, "Ian and Sylvia - Away Much Too Long," SF Examiner 5/31/71, p.24)
Yep, confident. I don't think Elwood would have erred that Dead members sat in; I wish he wasn't so vague, but he was writing an article on Ian & Sylvia, and the Rowans (as the opening act) only got a few sentences tagged at the end, so we're in luck that he mentioned a sit-in at all.
What strikes me is that Garcia sat in more than once with the Rowans at this time...not just here, but also at an undated Keystone Korner show where someone saw him play pedal steel with them (probably when they opened for the New Riders, June 12-13 '71).
Per Lost Live Dead: "July 2, 1971: The Rowan Brothers open the Grateful Dead's show at Fillmore West, with a band featuring Garcia on pedal steel, Kreutzmann on drums, Grisman on mandolin and engineer Bill Wolf on bass. The tape circulates and a few tracks were actually released in 2004."
Seems to me like in spring '71 Garcia was trying to prep the Rowan Brothers for the big time, becoming a virtual bandmember for several shows...
He was such a Garcia fan, the only thing that hangs me up is that he didn't mention Jerry by name. But you are likely right. And I had missed the KK report. Your dating sounds plausible, on the same prepping the band for the big time logic. Where does that report of JG sitting in with the Rowans at KK come from?
The Keystone source was someone who wrote me about shows they'd seen, so no online reference. https://jgmf.blogspot.com/2015/05/reading-notes-loren-2014.html?showComment=1453241542041#c5565970075964586953
I just came across a Living Blues No 199 review of Rodger Collins' self released CD from 2008, Through My Eyes. The reviewer writes that it contains "a killer version of Mystery Train featuring guitar solos by Jerry Garcia and a rhythm section that includes former CCR rhythm guitarist Tom Fogerty and keyboardist Merl Saunders."
I don't see any mention of this in jerrybase, deaddiscs or tcgdd but a brief search found it on youtube and it does sound like Jerry etc, although it is by no means a killer version.
"This CD re-introduces The Rodger Collins signature musical genre fitting in almost all popular categories. Rodger's intent is to share the flavor of his dynamic stage presence and tapestry of his musical influences with all those who haven't had the opportunity to see him live in concert. When you listen to this CD you come away feeling like you have been part of his concert audience.
The Driven 2 Step (featuring Mystery Train) - The Grateful Dead and Creedence Clearwater Revival fans along with all music lovers will be especially delighted with what Collins describes as his sentimental track. Collins is at his best in this once in a lifetime session with friends and sidemen the late great Merl Saunders, Jerry Garcia (The Grateful Dead) and Tom Fogerty (Creedence Clearwater Revival). The Collins genre and strong vocal delivery make the track acceptable in multiple categories: easy listening, deep funk, traditional R&B, rock, blues, and lite rock."
Collins sang back-up vocals on one track on Fogerty's first LP on Fantasy released in 1972 and released a Fantasy single (698 You Sexy Sugar Plum) himself in 1973. I checked out the credits for Merl's Keepers odds and ends collection for any mention of Rodger Collins (aka Hajji Sabrie) but found none. The Drivin 2 Step (Mystery Train) sounds nothing like the You Sexy Sugar Plum session but my guess is it comes from another 72 or 73 Fantasy session with a predictable bass player and drummer. Does anyone know anything about this?
This is great. For tracking purposes, I'm going to put in one comment per entry, to make Reply easier to follow.
ReplyDelete19661016; Big Brother at Avalon: A fellow scholar queried Peter Albin about this, and he doesn't recall it. That doesn't mean it did or didn't happen, but Pete doesn't remember it.
Given that the Mojo Navigator wrote about this the very next day, that trumps aging memories!
Delete"Jerry Garcia played one song with the Holding Company, which came off extremely well, then a group called “The New Peanut Butter Sandwich” composed of Pigpen and Garcia of the Grateful Dead, David Getz of the Holding Co., David of the Messenger Service, and the rhythm guitarist from Sir Douglas, later joined by Gary and John of the Messenger Service, and a Negro blues singer. They did a very long and boring pseudo-Butterfield blues instrumental."
19690110 Fillmore West with Country Joe And The Fish
ReplyDeletedate incorrect
The Donovan's Reef jam was 19690112 (Sunday night)
http://hooterollin.blogspot.com/2016/01/fillmore-west-january-12-1969-country.html
Fixed on my master spreadsheet, thanks.
DeleteThat post of yours escaped my net, which is full of holes.
Delete19690219 High Country at The Matix
ReplyDeleteI keep changing my mind. My current view is that it WAS Feb 19, and High Country played an early set at the Matrix. Other groups headlined Matrix that night (Hot Tuna/Weird Herald) and Garcia went over to Fillmore West.
Sounds sensible to me.
Delete19780604 Elvin Bishop in Santa Barbara
ReplyDeleteIt's non-coincidental that Melvin Seals was in the Elvin Bishop Group
The Pigboy nexus.
ReplyDeleteAre you going to include placeholders where you dont have an exact date?
ReplyDeleteMarrying Maiden-Its A Beautiful Day
Be What You Want To-Link Wray
Stills2 and Manassas-Stephen Stills (same session, at Criteria in FL)
Angel Clare-Art Garfunkel
A Wing And A Prayer-Matt Kelly (87 release, probably 73 recording)
Down In The Groove-Bob Dylan (88 vocals only)
Watchfire-Pete Sears
Transverse City-Warren Zevon
Trios-Rob Wasserman (with Edie Brickell)
You see I have been inconsistent with that. Anything more inclusive than a day eludes my coding system. Sometimes I use the first of the month, and could do so for all of them. That'd be quite a project, but I should go one way or the other rather than being inconsistent, and I think erring on the side of including them is worth it to see the studio work more clearly (and still obviously in reduced form relative to what actually went down).
DeletePlaceholders with no exact date should definitely be added. With this list, it's more important to see who Garcia played with than exactly when! So I'd urge more inclusions.
DeleteApril 1974 Record Plant demo session with Peter Rowan
ReplyDeleteturned up on Texican Badman
http://deaddisc.com/disc/Texican_Badman.htm
Yeah, again, that's one I can't pin with a precise date, so it goes right through my net.
Delete19790422 Spartan Stadium
ReplyDeleteThis was Brent's debut. The bill was GD/Charlie Daniels Band/Greg Kihn. A reliable commentator (Blue Heron) says that Garcia came on stage briefly during Charlie Daniels set, plugged in, but couldn't find room in the sound (or perhaps there was another technical problem) and left the stage.
I was there and don't recall that, but based on where I was sitting at that point (way back) it could have happened without me noticing.
Yeah, that commentary is good enough for me. I should find the link to that comment.
DeleteHe plated on You're The One, a track on The Neville Brothers album "Uptown" which was released in 1987.
ReplyDelete19880716 Peacewalk at Golden Gate Park Bandshell: Garcia sits in w/ Zero on three tunes: Think, Knockin' On Heaven's Door, Goodnight Irene.
ReplyDeleteA couple omissions:
ReplyDelete3/24/68 San Francisco street fair - Garcia sits in with Traffic
7/2/89 Foxboro - Garcia & Weir join Los Lobos in a little
parking-lot session for the cameras (a rehearsal?)
A couple corrections:
7/7/69 - the post-show jam was not with the Allmans but with a bunch of players from various bands.
"5/14/70" - the Scotty's Music Store jam is usually dated 12/9/71, which is uncertain but seems more likely than May '70.
I don't know if the Festival Express train jams from July '70 are worth noting; details in any case would be vague, though we have at least one recording:
https://archive.org/details/gd1970-07-00.aud.miller.106571.flac16
There are a few early jams which aren't exactly Garcia "sitting in" but aren't Dead or Garcia shows either - Carousel jams like 5/21/68; or the 2/15/68 rotating-players San Quentin show; or the 12/24/68 Matrix jam with Harvey Mandel's band... These kinds of things may fall through the cracks since they're hard to categorize.
(The 9/7/69 Family Dog oldies show is also a possible inclusion; though it's usually listed as a Dead show it qualifies more as a Garcia/Hart sit-in to me, at least what we have on tape.)
I have the Traffic thing as 3/18/68 - has this gig
Deletemoved?
I don't know from Scotty's, not sure why 12/9/71 is preferable, one that has been gone over a million times over the years.
It raises a more general conceptual issue, though, as do a number of your following entries: are these really JG as guest of a group? One litmus test is - whose guest is he (i.e., whose gig is it)?
I think I need a gig category which is just one-offs, which would be when the answer to the above question is that it was not someone's gig, it had more ad hoc qualities to it.
I think the Festival Express stuff I have is stuff I am comfortable listing as I do.
Agree with everything you say. I have the Hartbeats stuff as a Jerry gig, so to speak, but a lot of these lines are very hard to define. It has to be something of a gut feel.
7/7/69: I have probably just interpreted it as Allmans with Jerry and others sitting in. So this is more like the 2/4/70 super jam, the post-festival jam - not a guest shot because there is no host.
7/2/89: I am comfortable calling this Los Lobos, since it looks like 4 LL guys to two Dead. Does anyone have the names of the guys playing on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM18HENqNbk. But we could easily make the argument that this is just an ad hoc musical event, with respect to which language of hosting and guesting might not be appropriate.
3/24/68 - In comments to the LLD post, I established that 3/24 was the probable date for the Traffic show, not 3/18:
Deletehttp://lostlivedead.blogspot.com/2010/09/march-18-1968-pier-10-san-francisco.html
12/24/68 - Not Hartbeats; it was listed as "Jam Session with Jerry Garcia, Jack Casady and others," but the tape (if it's the right date) is Harvey Mandel's band with Jerry - doubtful whether Casady, Hart, or the usual suspects are there, it definitely sounds like Garcia as a guest of Mandel's group, not a Hartbeats situation.
7/7/69: One witness recalled, "Most of the musicians retook the stage to play with the Dead. Big horn section, background singers, eight drummers, a bass quintet, and Harold Kelling, Glenn Phillips, Duane Allman and Dickie Betts, Delaney Bramlett, Chicago’s guitarist, Randy California, and Jerry Garcia trading and interlacing lead lines."
http://www.thestripproject.com/a-bus-stops-in-piedmont-park-july-7-1969/
Other sources should be checked too (this could be embellished), but it's clearly a multi-band after-show jam, not a "guest" situation per se. My feeling is it should still be included, though.
12/9/71 - Since Buddy Cage is believed to be on the recording (Scotty himself said so), it makes Dec '71 more likely than 1970. More crucially, the tape also includes 'Country Roads,' a song which was not released until spring 1971!
Some chat about the jam here:
http://archive.org/post/329204/scottys-music-store-jam
What about all those Reconstruction shows with "guest guitarist Jerry Garcia"?? ;)
ReplyDeleteThere's one more Keith & Donna Band show: 12/20/75 at Winterland with Garcia as the only guitarist for 99% of the set: http://db.etree.org/shn/12493
and Garcia sitting in with the Nelson/Rothman "California Bros." band at the Lone Star Cafe, 4/6/87: http://db.etree.org/shn/101075
Also, would that jam at Mickey's ranch on 8/21/71 count for the purposes of this list? It was Garcia, Crosby, Cipollina, Lesh, Hart, and possibly others -- maybe it's worth considering, since it was an after-show jam at a NRPS performance + the fact that the only identifiable songs are either Crosby's or random jam session fare.
https://archive.org/details/gd71-08-21.hartjam.aud.17179.sbeok.shnf
http://lostlivedead.blogspot.com/2012/03/august-21-1971-mickey-harts-ranch.html
and I assume that the brief 1968 axis of Garcia/Casady/Hart *wouldn't* count for the purposes of this list, since they were (very briefly) considering forming an actual band? (I think?) that would include the 5/21/68 Carousel jam, the 7/28/68 Rancho Olompali jam, the 10/28/69(68?) Jefferson Airplane House jam... or would they?
I also wondered whether the 8/21/71 jam would count, since it's most of the Dead and various guests....or is it an SF music gathering with some Dead guests? (Ihor's comment below has the details.)
DeleteLike the various '68 jam tapes with Airplane members, it's not quite a Garcia sit-in. On the other hand, I think it's best to include all these dates in the list, since several of us are bringing them up!
LIA, the alternative would be to make a separate category for unled musical events. That just generates a new set of lines to parse (were the Hartbeats really led?), but it would probably leave us with fewer ambiguities.
Delete12/20/75 - yes, added.
Delete4/6/87 - yes, added. Not sure how that one got nuked from my spreadsheet, because I chased that tape for years.
8/21/71 I'd like in the "other" category, along with the Carousel jams. Olompali to me is the germ of the Garcia-Casady-Hart power trio (as you mention), so it's a Jerry thing.
10/28/69 I think of as JG-Guest, literally in their house, so it should be on my list here.
from TCGDD:
ReplyDeleteNightline (ABC News) The July 4, 1989 program included Jerry Garcia, Bob Weir, and Los Lobos playing an acoustic "This Land Is Your Land". At the beginning of the show, about 10 seconds of Garcia and a member of Los Lobos playing "Sitting On Top Of The World" were broadcast. Later, a few seconds of "Let The Good Times Roll" were shown. A portion of "Ripple" from the "American Beauty" album was played over images from around the nation. These segments were taped backstage at Sullivan Stadium, Foxboro, MA, on July 2, 1989.
I-) ihor
from NedBase (http://nedbase.blogspot.com/):
ReplyDelete08-21-71 - Mickey's Barn Studio, Novato, CA - This was a local radio broadcast designated and promoted as "A Day In The Country" that took place at Mickey Hart's ranch barn. Musicians from several bands played most of the day together in varying configurations. These included members of the Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Quicksilver Messenger Service, David Crosby, Barry Melton, the New Riders of the Purple Sage, many others, and Ned.
According to Ned: "While I had already met several of those in attendance, jammed with some, and already worked on "Seastones" with some (and played baseball with some), I got to see and meet many others from the Bay Area, musicians and families. Very high day for everyone. One of the very memorable days."
There are two known recordings: Ned's personal copy (available on Ned's music webpage spiritcats.com/music and then scroll down to the DOWNLOADS section ), and an audience recording ( https://archive.org/details/gd71-08-21.hartjam.aud.17179.sbeok.shnf ).
Tape box for "A Day In The Country"
The tape box of Ned's recording lists: "Stokes, Garcia, Lagin, Hart, Lesh, Crosby, Cippolina, Freiberg" and recording information. It contains "The Other One Jam" > "The Wall Song", "Jam", "Blooz", and "R&R Jam".
The audience recording contains "Jam #1", "Wall Song" > "Jam" > "Wall Song", "Jam #2", "Noodle Part 1", "Noodle Part 2", "Jam #3", "Jam #4", "Tuning Jam #1", "Ghost Riders In The Sky Jam", "Winin' Boy Blues", "Tuning Jam #2", and "Tore Down".
According to Ned: "Phil had all the tapes, and we listened to all the recordings in his living room. Phil made reel-to-reel and cassette copies for himself and for me. My tape box labeling was written by Phil. Phil listed on the tape box only a few of the musicians before tiring and "quitting" the labeling process."
"I played piano or organ throughout the day." From memory, Ned lists the following musicians: "Jerry Garcia, Phil Lesh, Bob Weir, Mickey Hart, David Crosby, David Freiberg, Barry Melton, John Cippolina, Robbie Stokes, Jorma Kaukonen, Jack Casady, Paul Kantner, maybe Merl Saunders. Three or four or more guitarists playing together, two basses. Most out of tune with piano and organ at times and worst by the end. David Freiberg sometimes played organ, as well as bass. Some thought Nicky Hopkins was there but I have no memory of him, and believe at the time he was with the Rolling Stones. This day exemplifies the spirit of the music and comradeship of the times that I had experienced first in the summer of 1970, then in the summers of 1971,1972, and 1973. And the spirit of the times when "Seastones" was recorded."
I-) ihor
Awesome - thanks!
Deletei would suggest perusing TCGDD https://tcgdd.freeyellow.com/ for more / other info about guest appearances.
ReplyDeleteI-) ihor
should these be added:
ReplyDelete10-28-69 jam airplane house
07-28-68 jam with jack casady, jerry garcia, and mickey hart at olompali
I-) ihor
i would also suggest perusing NedBase http://nedbase.blogspot.com/ for studio and live dates with Ned Lagin.
ReplyDeleteI-) ihor
Aside from multiple undated Seastones recording sessions, one definite addition there is Ned's 9/19/75 Palace of Fine Arts show:
Delete"Ned performs "Seastones" and other compositions with Phil, Jerry, and David Crosby. The recording indicates that Jerry was present and accounted for in at least in the first part of this concert. He had to leave this concert early for a Jerry Garcia Band concert in Sacramento."
I always thought of Jerry as a "member" of that "band" from 9/19/75, though, just like 11/28/73, not a guest.
DeleteYou have 6/6/75 on your list, though!
DeleteWith 11/28/73, Garcia was billed and the other guys just showed up. These Phil & Ned '75 shows are the reverse; Garcia could come or not come, so is closer to being a guest than a member - particularly if he leaves halfway through the show!
Agreed. The 11/28/73 was billed Jerry Garcia & Mickey Hart, though we now know for sure that Ned and Phil were performing as well. The 6/6/75 and 9/19/75 Seastones shows were Ned's gig: 6/6 is billed "Ned Lagin, Phil Lesh & Friends," so I supposed you could argue that JG is one of the 'friends' and ergo 'in the band', but I disagree: I always got the sense that anyone other than Ned or Phil who played during those sets (i.e. Jerry) was "joining in" as opposed to playing an integral part. During those 1974 Phil & Ned sets, he sometimes opted to join in, but usually did not. I say call any playing that Garcia did on Ned Lagin's turf a guest appearance, just like any time that Ned Lagin sat in during the Dead's own jams was a guest appearance.
DeleteI don't think "guest" in this context necessarily means just "dropping in": it ranges from the genuinely spontaneous (eg the Los Lobos sit-in in late 86, or - for the matter), to the casual but still pre-arranged (eg NRPS 3/18/73, billed "NRPS & special friends"), to the planned, announced/billed, and possibly even rehearsed (eg the Olatunji show in 87). Garcia's level of involvement was somewhat different in all of those situations, but I think it's accurate in all of them to assert that he was a special guest. Garcia clearly played and worked *a lot* with Ned Lagin, but I don't ever get the sense that he was central to the Seastones composition/concept in the sense that he was a member of an ensemble.
derp. scratch "for the matter" in that bit about Los Lobos. I do still think that "guest" needs some differentiation w/r/t its utility as a label for this purpose
DeleteI think there are some category issues here, even if that in itself creates the proverbial grey areas.
ReplyDeleteFor Garcia to be a "guest," there has to be a pre-existing entity, even if the make up of that "entity" is casual. So>
A band that does not include Garcia, who joins in, or
A recording session where Garcia is not the leader
From that point of view, a private or public jam session (whether at Mickey's or the Matrix) wouldn't count. Garcia isn't a guest, not anymore than anyone else.
Now, you can change that, and say jams are included, but then we have to include every time that Garcia attended a jam. Suddenly Carousel, Matrix and other dates come into play.
Thanks to all who have commented, and I do invite anyone to join in.
ReplyDeleteOne other meta note: I will use deaddisc to create placeholder dates for all of the recording sessions. He even already basically classifies releases as either Jerry's (thus hosting other players) or someone else's (thus being someone's guest).
On the category issue:
ReplyDeleteIt depends how strictly you want to stick to Garcia as a "guest." If the list just includes events where he's sitting in with another band, then jam sessions with various individual players involved would be excluded.
I think the list would be most useful if it had a broad range, covering all the known times Garcia played with other musicians outside his own bands/shows. While it's certainly feasible to segregate unhosted jam sessions into their own category, my feeling is that people will be looking at this list to find precisely such sessions, not merely for Garcia's "guest" spots.
If you want to be strict about the "guest" category, things like the 2/4/70 Family Dog jam, the Scotty's Music jam, and the David & the Dorks shows would be omitted.
Garcia played in many gray areas not really covered by the "guest" concept. My preference is that the list would ideally include the gray areas, that's part of what it's for: if it's limited by a strict category, its use for people looking up various Garcia-on-the-side appearances is also limited.
But it's your call, of course!
Well, since you are including jams, you need to add this:
ReplyDelete19690815 Woodstock "Free Stage", Bethel, NY
In the woods, far away from the main stage at Woodstock, there was a little free stage where various locals got up and jammed. Rosie McGee's book includes a picture of Jerry playing on that stage. August 15 is an assumption, it may be the day of Aug 16, I'm not really sure.
No one has really noticed the picture, but its there. I need to write up eleventy-two thousand words on the topic, one of these days, but it should be included. It does kind of suggest that a lot fewer people read every page of Rosie McGee's book, but that's true of scholarship in general.
I read every page, it's retaining it long enough to get it off-loaded to where it needs to go. The fact that the date is uncertain may be why I don't presently list it - I can't pin it to a specific day (at least). I will investigate.
ReplyDeleteI'm sympathetic. It doesn't appear on any of my lists either, just another one of those things that we know about but can't categorize. That's why this list is a good thing.
DeleteNice expansion of the list! It looks more filled-out now, pending more corrections & indefinite placeholder dates.
ReplyDeleteI don't remember any Woodstock photos in Rosie McGee's book!
There's a photo of the free stage thought to be of Jerry, but turned out to be someone else:
http://jerrygarciasbrokendownpalaces.blogspot.com/2012/09/free-stage-hog-farm-camp-max-yasgurs.html
It's left open whether Jerry actually ever did play on the free stage.
But for sure he informally played an acoustic with Rosalie Sorrels & David Bromberg as she sang 'If I Could Be The Rain' somewhere in the fields of Woodstock; thought to be on August 15.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld-g30MGJu4
Thanks for that. I have added it. I didn't know about that David Bromberg crossing!
ReplyDeleteAdding to this list - on May 27 (or 28), 1971, Philip Elwood saw the Rowan Brothers playing with Ian & Sylvia at the Lion's Share, and mentioned that "the set I heard by the Rowans was further enhanced by various of the Grateful Dead sitting in."
ReplyDelete(Elwood, "Ian and Sylvia - Away Much Too Long," SF Examiner 5/31/71, p.24)
You are confident enough that Garcia was a sittee to list this, if you were me?
ReplyDeleteWho else played with them on 7/2/71? This might have been part of the process of getting themselves together for that (or given rise to the idea).
Yep, confident. I don't think Elwood would have erred that Dead members sat in; I wish he wasn't so vague, but he was writing an article on Ian & Sylvia, and the Rowans (as the opening act) only got a few sentences tagged at the end, so we're in luck that he mentioned a sit-in at all.
DeleteWhat strikes me is that Garcia sat in more than once with the Rowans at this time...not just here, but also at an undated Keystone Korner show where someone saw him play pedal steel with them (probably when they opened for the New Riders, June 12-13 '71).
Per Lost Live Dead:
"July 2, 1971: The Rowan Brothers open the Grateful Dead's show at Fillmore West, with a band featuring Garcia on pedal steel, Kreutzmann on drums, Grisman on mandolin and engineer Bill Wolf on bass. The tape circulates and a few tracks were actually released in 2004."
Seems to me like in spring '71 Garcia was trying to prep the Rowan Brothers for the big time, becoming a virtual bandmember for several shows...
He was such a Garcia fan, the only thing that hangs me up is that he didn't mention Jerry by name. But you are likely right. And I had missed the KK report. Your dating sounds plausible, on the same prepping the band for the big time logic. Where does that report of JG sitting in with the Rowans at KK come from?
DeleteThe Keystone source was someone who wrote me about shows they'd seen, so no online reference.
Deletehttps://jgmf.blogspot.com/2015/05/reading-notes-loren-2014.html?showComment=1453241542041#c5565970075964586953
Is there a list of all the guests at Garcia's shows over the years?
ReplyDeleteI have the data necessary to make one, and will try to do so before too long.
DeleteI just came across a Living Blues No 199 review of Rodger Collins' self released CD from 2008, Through My Eyes.
ReplyDeleteThe reviewer writes that it contains "a killer version of Mystery Train featuring guitar solos by Jerry Garcia and a rhythm section that includes former CCR rhythm guitarist Tom Fogerty and keyboardist Merl Saunders."
I don't see any mention of this in jerrybase, deaddiscs or tcgdd but a brief search found it on youtube and it does sound like Jerry etc, although it is by no means a killer version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg_UVRljHN8&list=OLAK5uy_msVTf9b8BtjwToCUYnFq5r69N7LJe5MeY&index=4
Some fluff on an ebay listing for the CD has
"This CD re-introduces The Rodger Collins signature musical genre fitting in almost all popular categories. Rodger's intent is to share the flavor of his dynamic stage presence and tapestry of his musical influences with all those who haven't had the opportunity to see him live in concert. When you listen to this CD you come away feeling like you have been part of his concert audience.
The Driven 2 Step (featuring Mystery Train) - The Grateful Dead and Creedence Clearwater Revival fans along with all music lovers will be especially delighted with what Collins describes as his sentimental track. Collins is at his best in this once in a lifetime session with friends and sidemen the late great Merl Saunders, Jerry Garcia (The Grateful Dead) and Tom Fogerty (Creedence Clearwater Revival). The Collins genre and strong vocal delivery make the track acceptable in multiple categories: easy listening, deep funk, traditional R&B, rock, blues, and lite rock."
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185102114878?epid=8046060894&hash=item2b18f2203e:g:v2gAAOSwsCBhZSLR
Collins sang back-up vocals on one track on Fogerty's first LP on Fantasy released in 1972 and released a Fantasy single (698 You Sexy Sugar Plum) himself in 1973. I checked out the credits for Merl's Keepers odds and ends collection for any mention of Rodger Collins (aka Hajji Sabrie) but found none. The Drivin 2 Step (Mystery Train) sounds nothing like the You Sexy Sugar Plum session but my guess is it comes from another 72 or 73 Fantasy session with a predictable bass player and drummer. Does anyone know anything about this?
I would give a small piece of a finger to have access to session logs from Fantasy, but have never been able to make any headway with that.
Delete